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setting the front shoe back
Post At
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: cyndi legerSubject: setting the front shoe back
Email: cyndileger@aol.com
MY SHOER SETS THE FRONT SHOES BACK HALF WAY BEWEEN THE WHITE LINE AND THE HOOF WALL. REASON FOR DOING SO IS THAT HE SAYS IT PREVENTS THE TOE FROM GETTING TO LONG. GETS THE HORSE UNDERNETH HIMSELF,INCREASE THE BREAK OVER,AND KEEPS THE HEEL FROM GETTING UNDERUN AND CONTRACTED HEELS.I HAVE A HORSE WITH A LONG TOE AND SHORT HEELS I CAN UNDERSTAND HIS NEED.THE OTHER HORSE HAVE "NORMAL" FEET.CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME INSIGHT ON THE REASON FOR DOING THIS IF ITS RIGHT FOR ANY OF THE HORSE OR NOT A GOOD PRACTICE FOR NORMAL FEET.
Email: cyndileger@aol.com
MY SHOER SETS THE FRONT SHOES BACK HALF WAY BEWEEN THE WHITE LINE AND THE HOOF WALL. REASON FOR DOING SO IS THAT HE SAYS IT PREVENTS THE TOE FROM GETTING TO LONG. GETS THE HORSE UNDERNETH HIMSELF,INCREASE THE BREAK OVER,AND KEEPS THE HEEL FROM GETTING UNDERUN AND CONTRACTED HEELS.I HAVE A HORSE WITH A LONG TOE AND SHORT HEELS I CAN UNDERSTAND HIS NEED.THE OTHER HORSE HAVE "NORMAL" FEET.CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME INSIGHT ON THE REASON FOR DOING THIS IF ITS RIGHT FOR ANY OF THE HORSE OR NOT A GOOD PRACTICE FOR NORMAL FEET.
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Gary
Email: FtFrkGary@aol.com
Go to the hopeforsoundness web site and it explains the reasons for backing up the toe as your farrier has done. It really does help those with crushed heels from leaving them too long. Happy reading! And Good Luck! Gary
Email: FtFrkGary@aol.com
Go to the hopeforsoundness web site and it explains the reasons for backing up the toe as your farrier has done. It really does help those with crushed heels from leaving them too long. Happy reading! And Good Luck! Gary
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Mike
Email:
Normal use, normal foot, not normal shoeing & not necessary.
Only needs to be set back on a normal foot doing abnormal activities(Jumpers etc..) or on LTLH feet as a matter of course.
Should not be set back more than 50% of hoof wall thickness under most cicumstances.
If set back too far, could predispose the fetlock to injury, especially if the toe is squared on fronts.
Good Luck
Mike
Email:
Normal use, normal foot, not normal shoeing & not necessary.
Only needs to be set back on a normal foot doing abnormal activities(Jumpers etc..) or on LTLH feet as a matter of course.
Should not be set back more than 50% of hoof wall thickness under most cicumstances.
If set back too far, could predispose the fetlock to injury, especially if the toe is squared on fronts.
Good Luck
Mike
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Patty Stiller
Email: calshoer@direcway.com
Mike,
I do natural balance exclusively. and have had teriffic success with it.
There is a common misconception (which I was taught in farrier school many moons ago) concerning setting shoes back that the shoe edge at the toe cannot be behind the whiteline at the toe.
My more recent experience (the last seven years)has clearly illustrated to me that in some feet which have developed long toes, (not just laminitic feet) in order to set the breakover point of the shoe to a very specific anatomical place relative to the tip of the coffin bone there may be a significant amount of foot overhanging the toe of the shoe, the first time NB is applied.
In those cases I have even learned I can drive (and have driven) a nail or two right through the sole at the toe, well behind the apparently normal laminae to illustrate that scar tissue develops between the coffin bone and dorsal wall in those NONlaminitic ,long toed feet.
I found that setting the breakover point where it should be relative to the coffin bone is the fastest way to correct it,in conjunction with getting the heels trimmed down.
Horses with the breakover point set just slightly ahead of the coffin bone tip or right under it only develop fetlock or other types of joint soreness if the farier neglected ot trim the heels down at the same time he set the breakover back.
Leaving the heels longer than the sole plane is an 'all too common' error in attempting to apply any type of naturally based hoof balance whether in barefoot trims or shoeing.
Both ends of the foot need to be addressed at the same time, or I can expect some level of failure.
In setting a shoe behind the whiteline,thew farrier MUST be careful to to preserve the sole callous around the tip of the copffin bone, to avoid sole pressure or making the horse sore.
If I prepare the heels correctly (trimming them down to move the base of caudal support rearward and insuring frog function)along with setting breakover accurately relative to the tip of the bone bone, then I have found that no matter how much toe is left overhanging the shoe the first time, by the next shoeing the enture dorsal hoof wall has noticeably changed direction of growth and there will be very little foot overhanging the next shoe.
The point of breakover never changes relative to the coffin bone ,but the outer wall does change shape and comes gets more parallel to the dorsal surface of the bone,and very qiuickly,
I hope this explains this one small part of natural balance a bit better for you.
Patty
Email: calshoer@direcway.com
Mike,
I do natural balance exclusively. and have had teriffic success with it.
There is a common misconception (which I was taught in farrier school many moons ago) concerning setting shoes back that the shoe edge at the toe cannot be behind the whiteline at the toe.
My more recent experience (the last seven years)has clearly illustrated to me that in some feet which have developed long toes, (not just laminitic feet) in order to set the breakover point of the shoe to a very specific anatomical place relative to the tip of the coffin bone there may be a significant amount of foot overhanging the toe of the shoe, the first time NB is applied.
In those cases I have even learned I can drive (and have driven) a nail or two right through the sole at the toe, well behind the apparently normal laminae to illustrate that scar tissue develops between the coffin bone and dorsal wall in those NONlaminitic ,long toed feet.
I found that setting the breakover point where it should be relative to the coffin bone is the fastest way to correct it,in conjunction with getting the heels trimmed down.
Horses with the breakover point set just slightly ahead of the coffin bone tip or right under it only develop fetlock or other types of joint soreness if the farier neglected ot trim the heels down at the same time he set the breakover back.
Leaving the heels longer than the sole plane is an 'all too common' error in attempting to apply any type of naturally based hoof balance whether in barefoot trims or shoeing.
Both ends of the foot need to be addressed at the same time, or I can expect some level of failure.
In setting a shoe behind the whiteline,thew farrier MUST be careful to to preserve the sole callous around the tip of the copffin bone, to avoid sole pressure or making the horse sore.
If I prepare the heels correctly (trimming them down to move the base of caudal support rearward and insuring frog function)along with setting breakover accurately relative to the tip of the bone bone, then I have found that no matter how much toe is left overhanging the shoe the first time, by the next shoeing the enture dorsal hoof wall has noticeably changed direction of growth and there will be very little foot overhanging the next shoe.
The point of breakover never changes relative to the coffin bone ,but the outer wall does change shape and comes gets more parallel to the dorsal surface of the bone,and very qiuickly,
I hope this explains this one small part of natural balance a bit better for you.
Patty
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Tom Stovall, CJF
Email: stovall@wt.net
Setting the shoe under is just one method of reducing the effective length of the phalangeal lever while raising its effective angle. The technique was pioneered by Gunnar Gatski, an innovative hunter/jumper farrier, in the early 80's - long before the so-called "natural" methods of farriery modeled on a feral foot in an abrasive environment came into vogue.
Gunnar shamelessly stole the concept from some fellow named Archimedes and it's based on the idea that the amount of work it takes to turn the phalangeal lever over is a function of the length and angulation of the lever.
Unarguably, within normal parameters, the shorter and more upright, the more efficient (i.e., the less caloric expenditure) in getting from here to there at any gait - at liberty, led, ridden, or driven.
I have some essays on my farrier pages that explain the process in a bit more depth.
Tom Stovall, CJF
stovall@wt.net
http://www.katyforge.com
Email: stovall@wt.net
Setting the shoe under is just one method of reducing the effective length of the phalangeal lever while raising its effective angle. The technique was pioneered by Gunnar Gatski, an innovative hunter/jumper farrier, in the early 80's - long before the so-called "natural" methods of farriery modeled on a feral foot in an abrasive environment came into vogue.
Gunnar shamelessly stole the concept from some fellow named Archimedes and it's based on the idea that the amount of work it takes to turn the phalangeal lever over is a function of the length and angulation of the lever.
Unarguably, within normal parameters, the shorter and more upright, the more efficient (i.e., the less caloric expenditure) in getting from here to there at any gait - at liberty, led, ridden, or driven.
I have some essays on my farrier pages that explain the process in a bit more depth.
Tom Stovall, CJF
stovall@wt.net
http://www.katyforge.com
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Ronald Aalders
Email: ronaldaalders@planet.nl
I agree completely with Mr. Stovall here. More than once I found that people in our business try to put their brand on universal laws of (bio)mechanics. Often just to market the gadgets they manufacture. As if laws of physics only work when you use shoes marked "X".
Ronald Aalders
Email: ronaldaalders@planet.nl
I agree completely with Mr. Stovall here. More than once I found that people in our business try to put their brand on universal laws of (bio)mechanics. Often just to market the gadgets they manufacture. As if laws of physics only work when you use shoes marked "X".
Ronald Aalders
Reply at
12/15/2003 - 10:47 pm
reply from
Donnie Walker
Approximately 51 years ago, when I was 7, I vividly remember watching my dad as he shod horses. He was a meticulous individual, attuned to detail, over-flowing with common sense, and a great blacksmith/farrier. His phylosophy, which I am certain he learned from someone else, advocated setting the toe of a shoe back to the white line. I cannot attest to the fact that he never deviated from that procedure. Obviously, though, this method is not newly founded, except to the present generation. I use this method, not only on client horses, but on my own roping and barrel horses. Have had nothing but positive results. My oldest horse is 28 and I've had him since he was 18 months, and my youngest is 6, whom I have had since he was 2, and the other 7 are in between these ages. All of them are shod in this manner. No osselets, wind puffs, sidebone, ringbone or any other similar problems exist in any of these animals. Much of this success is also a result of carefully caring for them in areas other than shoeing. For the last 7 years I have utilized the method advocated by Bergy Bergaleen, www.hooftalk.com and have found it to be very successful. I believe I will stick with this until something else comes along that proves it wrong, or a better method is developed. Good to luck to all in whatever method you use. Donnie
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