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White line disease
Post At
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Hope McLeanSubject: White line disease
Email: yu145155@york
Hi - my question is, considering my horse already has small pockets caused by the disintegration of his white line, should I be packing cotton w/treatment into the cavities so debris does not get in there? (which might pack tight and recreate anaerobic conditions?) Should I put easyboots on him to prevent this? Essentially, what do I do other than scrubbing his feet every day?
Thank you,
Hope.
Email: yu145155@york
Hi - my question is, considering my horse already has small pockets caused by the disintegration of his white line, should I be packing cotton w/treatment into the cavities so debris does not get in there? (which might pack tight and recreate anaerobic conditions?) Should I put easyboots on him to prevent this? Essentially, what do I do other than scrubbing his feet every day?
Thank you,
Hope.
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Nate Allen
Email: allenk@sr66.com
Hope,
It is not uncommon for a hoof with white line disease, sometimes called hoof wall disease since it actually involves the hoof wall, to have small cavities next to the white line.
There is quite a bit of controversy about how to treat white line disease. I would encourage you to work closely with your farrier in dealing with this problem. Your veterinarian may be involved and thats great. Sometimes veterinarians are not involved with white line disease since generally only the "horny" or insensitive structures of the hoof are involved. Several individuals including Burney Chapman have done extensive research on "white line disease." Since this problem is caused by a fungus, it is much harder to tackle than something like thrush that is caused by a bacteria. Although some farriers have successfully used acrylics after repair of white line disease, most caution and do not suggest the use of acrylics since an anaerobic environment is created. If all the diseased horn is not carefully removed, the condition likely will become worse.
Refering to the American Farriers Journal Management Report #5 (White Line Disease, Onychomycosis Update) page 9, Dennis Loudermilk, a Tennessee farrier discusses the use of packing the cavities with cotton balls soaked in a copper sulfate solution (one tablespoon of copper sulfate powder with just enough water to make it wet). He suggests replacing the cotton and solution periodically until the cavity grows out. Mr. Loudermilk also suggests checking the surrounding hoof wall horn for the green tint from the copper sulfate to be sure you have exposed all the diseased horn and are treating it properly. I do not have any experience with copper sulfate, I have heard many successful stories of using merthiolate in conjunction with thoroughly removing all the diseased horn. Merthiolate can be purchased from most farrier supply businesses. The merthiolate can be applied to the walls of the cavity and then packed with cotton. 10% benzoyl peroxide has also been suggested in dealing with white line disease.
I live in a very dry climate, so I do not see many cases of "white line disease." In the three cases I have worked on in the last three years, I have not sent the tissues to be cultured to be certain that is was a fungus and in fact was white line disease. All three horses only had one affected hoof and each was pretty advanced which required hoof wall removal in the affected area to be sure all the diseased tissue was removed. I did not treat them with any products, just good ole fashioned air, and all three grew new, healthy hooves. On one hoof, I let some students cover up the void with repair material and it just made the condition worse. We probably had not done a good job of removing all the diseased horn.
If you are interested in further study, the American Farriers Journal Management report on "White Line Disease," which contains several recent articles on white line disease, can be obtained from the American Farriers Journal by calling (262) 782-4480 or (800) 645-8455 or email them at info@lesspub.com
Good Luck!
Nate Allen, Instructor
Mesa Technical College
Tucumcari, NM
Email: allenk@sr66.com
Hope,
It is not uncommon for a hoof with white line disease, sometimes called hoof wall disease since it actually involves the hoof wall, to have small cavities next to the white line.
There is quite a bit of controversy about how to treat white line disease. I would encourage you to work closely with your farrier in dealing with this problem. Your veterinarian may be involved and thats great. Sometimes veterinarians are not involved with white line disease since generally only the "horny" or insensitive structures of the hoof are involved. Several individuals including Burney Chapman have done extensive research on "white line disease." Since this problem is caused by a fungus, it is much harder to tackle than something like thrush that is caused by a bacteria. Although some farriers have successfully used acrylics after repair of white line disease, most caution and do not suggest the use of acrylics since an anaerobic environment is created. If all the diseased horn is not carefully removed, the condition likely will become worse.
Refering to the American Farriers Journal Management Report #5 (White Line Disease, Onychomycosis Update) page 9, Dennis Loudermilk, a Tennessee farrier discusses the use of packing the cavities with cotton balls soaked in a copper sulfate solution (one tablespoon of copper sulfate powder with just enough water to make it wet). He suggests replacing the cotton and solution periodically until the cavity grows out. Mr. Loudermilk also suggests checking the surrounding hoof wall horn for the green tint from the copper sulfate to be sure you have exposed all the diseased horn and are treating it properly. I do not have any experience with copper sulfate, I have heard many successful stories of using merthiolate in conjunction with thoroughly removing all the diseased horn. Merthiolate can be purchased from most farrier supply businesses. The merthiolate can be applied to the walls of the cavity and then packed with cotton. 10% benzoyl peroxide has also been suggested in dealing with white line disease.
I live in a very dry climate, so I do not see many cases of "white line disease." In the three cases I have worked on in the last three years, I have not sent the tissues to be cultured to be certain that is was a fungus and in fact was white line disease. All three horses only had one affected hoof and each was pretty advanced which required hoof wall removal in the affected area to be sure all the diseased tissue was removed. I did not treat them with any products, just good ole fashioned air, and all three grew new, healthy hooves. On one hoof, I let some students cover up the void with repair material and it just made the condition worse. We probably had not done a good job of removing all the diseased horn.
If you are interested in further study, the American Farriers Journal Management report on "White Line Disease," which contains several recent articles on white line disease, can be obtained from the American Farriers Journal by calling (262) 782-4480 or (800) 645-8455 or email them at info@lesspub.com
Good Luck!
Nate Allen, Instructor
Mesa Technical College
Tucumcari, NM
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Martin D. Kenny C.J.F.
Email: horsesinsymmetry@mindspring.com
First off I want to warn you that I am going to go out on a limb here. I have shod horses for 28 years and have watched this issue take the entire Equine world over by storm. I had the same concerns, cures, and (yes) excuses as every one else about this condition. It has been called W.L.D. for "White Line Disease". I used to say that too... Now I call it W.L.D. for "White Lie Disease". It is NOT a disease at all, only a condition that we MUST learn how to stop creating ourselves.
We see this WLD come, get treated then return later. We take samples and find a whole spectrum of fungi involved. While I agree that we do have a problem of fungi living in these voids, I do NOT agree that it is the fungi that is tearing our walls apart. The fungi is growing there because WE as Farriers have created the void that allows it to grow there.
I had the same problem that every one else was having with this WLD. I tried every method to "cure" it that all other Farriers have tried. I came up with the same un-satisfactory results. ( some times it would help- some times it would not, most of the time it would return later on) I now have no problem at all, am able to take the feet that have been resected, treated, baked, fried, boiled, you name it and return them to feet with NO DEFECTS in the white line at all, and most importantly...they stay that way.
I have totally changed the way that I shod horses for many many years. I always shod according to the standards of the A.F.A., in fact I used to be an examineer. Today if I was to submit my work to the A.F.A. for certification I would not make it past the trimming portion of the test.
You see, I discovered that the way that the standards and historical shoeing advise has told us to trim and shoe horses has in fact created this problem. You only have to look at old shoeing books to see that this has been a problem for a VERY long time. All the old books talk about "seedy toe" it is in fact the same thing that we see today, just in the toe area only. I realized that if we keep doing the same thing we have always done, we will continue to get the same results. That did not take a brain surgeon to figure out.
You add to the equation that we now ride our horses in footing that we never used to ride in ( soft riding ring surfaces) and we see more manifistation of the same problem we always had. Horses who work or live in soft footing (mud, or sand, it does not matter which) will get different stresses on the entire skelatal system that will create this problem from internal as well as external pulls on the hoof capsule. It is these pulls that create W.L.D. and cracks in the hoof capsule. Get rid of the stress and you get rid of the problem. WITHOUT treating the fungi, which is an opportunist at best.
In summary, to solve the problem WE HAVE TO ALL CHANGE HOW WE LOOK AT FEET AND CHANGE THE WAY WE SHOE THEM. It is not difficult, we just have to be open to change and learn new ways for TODAY'S horses.
I am happy to show any one what I have learned, you just have to be open to learn. Many Farriers have discovered that this is the truth. I can be reached at horsesinsymmetry@mindspring.com
Email: horsesinsymmetry@mindspring.com
First off I want to warn you that I am going to go out on a limb here. I have shod horses for 28 years and have watched this issue take the entire Equine world over by storm. I had the same concerns, cures, and (yes) excuses as every one else about this condition. It has been called W.L.D. for "White Line Disease". I used to say that too... Now I call it W.L.D. for "White Lie Disease". It is NOT a disease at all, only a condition that we MUST learn how to stop creating ourselves.
We see this WLD come, get treated then return later. We take samples and find a whole spectrum of fungi involved. While I agree that we do have a problem of fungi living in these voids, I do NOT agree that it is the fungi that is tearing our walls apart. The fungi is growing there because WE as Farriers have created the void that allows it to grow there.
I had the same problem that every one else was having with this WLD. I tried every method to "cure" it that all other Farriers have tried. I came up with the same un-satisfactory results. ( some times it would help- some times it would not, most of the time it would return later on) I now have no problem at all, am able to take the feet that have been resected, treated, baked, fried, boiled, you name it and return them to feet with NO DEFECTS in the white line at all, and most importantly...they stay that way.
I have totally changed the way that I shod horses for many many years. I always shod according to the standards of the A.F.A., in fact I used to be an examineer. Today if I was to submit my work to the A.F.A. for certification I would not make it past the trimming portion of the test.
You see, I discovered that the way that the standards and historical shoeing advise has told us to trim and shoe horses has in fact created this problem. You only have to look at old shoeing books to see that this has been a problem for a VERY long time. All the old books talk about "seedy toe" it is in fact the same thing that we see today, just in the toe area only. I realized that if we keep doing the same thing we have always done, we will continue to get the same results. That did not take a brain surgeon to figure out.
You add to the equation that we now ride our horses in footing that we never used to ride in ( soft riding ring surfaces) and we see more manifistation of the same problem we always had. Horses who work or live in soft footing (mud, or sand, it does not matter which) will get different stresses on the entire skelatal system that will create this problem from internal as well as external pulls on the hoof capsule. It is these pulls that create W.L.D. and cracks in the hoof capsule. Get rid of the stress and you get rid of the problem. WITHOUT treating the fungi, which is an opportunist at best.
In summary, to solve the problem WE HAVE TO ALL CHANGE HOW WE LOOK AT FEET AND CHANGE THE WAY WE SHOE THEM. It is not difficult, we just have to be open to change and learn new ways for TODAY'S horses.
I am happy to show any one what I have learned, you just have to be open to learn. Many Farriers have discovered that this is the truth. I can be reached at horsesinsymmetry@mindspring.com
Reply at
11/ 5/2003 - 4:23 pm
reply from
dBoard Archive
Name: Nate Allen
Email: allenk@sr66.com
Mr. Kenny,
Thank you for your insight into White Line Disease, or as you call it "White Lie Disease." I appreciate the advice we get from veterans in the trade. Your response really caused me and probably others to think about the feet we shoe. Your consideration of fungi being opportunistic and coming to the dance after the other stresses on the hoof have already done their part really hit home. It is pretty amazing how most of our problems today were discussed in texts written before the turn of the century (1900). In many cases we do not need to reinvent the wheel, just search a little and adapt to today's horses.
I to passed my AFA Certified Journeyman Farrier Exams several years ago, but now I do not shoe every horse to those standards to those particular set of standards. I still feel like the test is meant to provide a standard for people to measure their skills against. Whether people agree or disagree with the standard is a big issue; however the point is, can person X shoe this horse today to this particular standard. I see many farriers who can not "fill a prescription" in every day practice, and it tends to catch up with them when completing the exams. Regardless of what the standard is, they would likely have the same pitfalls. They should not give up, nor let the outcome of the test have a negative affect on them. It should inspire and motivate them to practice harder. It is designed for each of us to measure our skill level against. I think the AFA is working even harder to ensure grading practices as consistent as well.
The challenge is that every horse we see in our every day practice is different; therefore, each has different needs.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, I hope you will again in the future.
Nate Allen, CJF
Tucumcari, NM
Email: allenk@sr66.com
Mr. Kenny,
Thank you for your insight into White Line Disease, or as you call it "White Lie Disease." I appreciate the advice we get from veterans in the trade. Your response really caused me and probably others to think about the feet we shoe. Your consideration of fungi being opportunistic and coming to the dance after the other stresses on the hoof have already done their part really hit home. It is pretty amazing how most of our problems today were discussed in texts written before the turn of the century (1900). In many cases we do not need to reinvent the wheel, just search a little and adapt to today's horses.
I to passed my AFA Certified Journeyman Farrier Exams several years ago, but now I do not shoe every horse to those standards to those particular set of standards. I still feel like the test is meant to provide a standard for people to measure their skills against. Whether people agree or disagree with the standard is a big issue; however the point is, can person X shoe this horse today to this particular standard. I see many farriers who can not "fill a prescription" in every day practice, and it tends to catch up with them when completing the exams. Regardless of what the standard is, they would likely have the same pitfalls. They should not give up, nor let the outcome of the test have a negative affect on them. It should inspire and motivate them to practice harder. It is designed for each of us to measure our skill level against. I think the AFA is working even harder to ensure grading practices as consistent as well.
The challenge is that every horse we see in our every day practice is different; therefore, each has different needs.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, I hope you will again in the future.
Nate Allen, CJF
Tucumcari, NM
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