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Pay For Apprentices
Post At
07/ 7/2011 - 11:20 pm
reply from
Aaron Edelson
Hey folks. I graduated from Kentucky Horseshoeing School about a year and a half ago and began and apprenticeship early in the fall of 2010. I am as hard a working person there is and put in a hard days work from start to finish. The individual I work for has 16 years experience and a wealth of knowledge. He is incredibly sucessful and makes in excess of $250,000 a year. My question and problem is as follows. I recognize I am an apprentice but I am getting paid barely more than minumum wage. On average we work 9-10 hour days and frequently work 13-15 hour days. I am paid a set rate every day regardless of hours. I get no breaks and my "boss" claims the education I am getting from him is part of my pay. I do have several clients of my own and am trying to build my business. In 45 minutes working for myself I can make what I make working for him an entire day. Furthermore I have lost numerous clients because of my inability to service them as a result of my long work days. Any and all advice is appreciated. I have never been afraid of hard work but I am trying to start a business AND I believe I should be compensated fairly.
Reply at
07/ 8/2011 - 9:17 am
reply from
Jim Goede
Aaron,
Sounds like you are being taken advantage of. I had a similar situation when I started. I worked part-time at Home Depot while I was building up my business. There came a point where I had to make a choice - start losing clients in order to keep the part time job, or pull the trigger and quit to put all my effort into the farrier practice. You have to ask yourself: What do I want to do, be a farrier, or something else? But it also comes down to economics. If you are at the point where your own effort to build you own business are being negatively impacted by the apprenticeship, then it's time to make a change. If I were you, I would renegotiate. If your "boss" really appreciates your work and is a reasonable person, he will understand. Perhaps it's better to either work on a per-horse basis, or maybe just ride with him certain days and other days you do you own thing. If you have you own tools and rig, that's what I would do. If not, then it's a tougher choice and you need some capital to really get started. You sound intelligent and articulate. I'm sure you can figure it out. Just use some common sense. It's what I wish there was more of out there...
Sounds like you are being taken advantage of. I had a similar situation when I started. I worked part-time at Home Depot while I was building up my business. There came a point where I had to make a choice - start losing clients in order to keep the part time job, or pull the trigger and quit to put all my effort into the farrier practice. You have to ask yourself: What do I want to do, be a farrier, or something else? But it also comes down to economics. If you are at the point where your own effort to build you own business are being negatively impacted by the apprenticeship, then it's time to make a change. If I were you, I would renegotiate. If your "boss" really appreciates your work and is a reasonable person, he will understand. Perhaps it's better to either work on a per-horse basis, or maybe just ride with him certain days and other days you do you own thing. If you have you own tools and rig, that's what I would do. If not, then it's a tougher choice and you need some capital to really get started. You sound intelligent and articulate. I'm sure you can figure it out. Just use some common sense. It's what I wish there was more of out there...
Reply at
07/ 8/2011 - 1:51 pm
reply from
Barry Denton
Aaron,
As a 35 year veteran of the farrier business I see it as paying your dues. I don't care what school you went to, it will still take you a good ten years of experience to become a good professional that can work on high end horses under pressure and do a good job. I'd say you are truly lucky to have a farrier that will let you ride with him. Let me explain how I handled apprentices.
Under my program the apprentice would pay me a lump sum before starting work for the first year. As the year progressed an agreed amount would be paid back to the apprentice each week for living expenses. At the end of the year the apprentice received two thirds of his money back and I received one third for sharing my knowledge. In the 2nd year the apprentice worked for an agreed salary. Most of my apprentices stayed with me at least 5 yrs. and then went on to have great careers of their own. We shod anywhere from 50 - 70 horses per week so our days were very long. Just think of the experience the apprentice gains.
I'm assuming you are young, so if you are only shoeing 10 hours a day do an extra one or two horses on your own at night. In the long run the experience is more valuable than any pay you may receive.
Best Regards!
As a 35 year veteran of the farrier business I see it as paying your dues. I don't care what school you went to, it will still take you a good ten years of experience to become a good professional that can work on high end horses under pressure and do a good job. I'd say you are truly lucky to have a farrier that will let you ride with him. Let me explain how I handled apprentices.
Under my program the apprentice would pay me a lump sum before starting work for the first year. As the year progressed an agreed amount would be paid back to the apprentice each week for living expenses. At the end of the year the apprentice received two thirds of his money back and I received one third for sharing my knowledge. In the 2nd year the apprentice worked for an agreed salary. Most of my apprentices stayed with me at least 5 yrs. and then went on to have great careers of their own. We shod anywhere from 50 - 70 horses per week so our days were very long. Just think of the experience the apprentice gains.
I'm assuming you are young, so if you are only shoeing 10 hours a day do an extra one or two horses on your own at night. In the long run the experience is more valuable than any pay you may receive.
Best Regards!
Reply at
07/ 8/2011 - 4:36 pm
reply from
Dr. Esco Buff, PhD, CF
Aaron,
There are many different ways to apprentiseship programs, as there are to any work related job. Some you pay, some they pay, and anything in between.
I think the best advice to you would be for you to check out what other people would offer you to apprentise. Then your decision can then be based on what needs are being met for you. Just like how you would go about finding a salaried job. Pay vs. experience vs. education vs. hours vs. environment vs. etc.
Blessings,
Esco Buff, PhD, CF
There are many different ways to apprentiseship programs, as there are to any work related job. Some you pay, some they pay, and anything in between.
I think the best advice to you would be for you to check out what other people would offer you to apprentise. Then your decision can then be based on what needs are being met for you. Just like how you would go about finding a salaried job. Pay vs. experience vs. education vs. hours vs. environment vs. etc.
Blessings,
Esco Buff, PhD, CF
Reply at
07/29/2011 - 8:52 pm
reply from
You're getting screwed. I'd try to talk him into cutting back to half days so I could build my business, if I felt I was still benefitting from working with him. Otherwise, I'd save my back and do my own damn horses. There's no point in getting crippled for minimum wage.
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